Notes for our session on April 6, 2013

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Paul: Welcome to Aslan’s Place. Like usual, we don’t know what we’re going to do. I have a small inkling. I woke up this morning as sometimes happens. I have something new in my …um…just below my lip on the left hand side twitching. In bed, I’m doing like this trying to figure it out. I’m like trying to figure out what’s going on and there’s actually …. appears to be a gate or door. There’s a gate here that goes off here like this is tied, evidently to an elder.


Paul: Lord we welcome your presence – Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and we desire that you will guide us and direct us … that you will teach us … that you will allow us to experience you and that in all that we do today that your kingdom will be advanced and that your will shall be done. Everything done in heaven will be done on earth. Our desire, Lord, is to see your kingdom established here … understanding all along that there’s a war going on and that there will be a final war in which you will be totally victorious even though the enemy doesn’t think so. We are grateful for your power and presence and for the way you are teaching us and directing us. Amen.


Paul: Years ago I was at Aslan’s Place with a young man (points to audience and asks) How old are you? You are 18. He was 16-17 and we were doing ministry. He saw little beings in a semi-circle in front of him. Then he got names for them and the Lord started showing us that they were elders. I write about those, I think, in Coming up Higher and Heaven Trek. We counted twelve of them and he actually gave twelve names. He realized they were like leprechauns or gnomes. So, I started doing some research on elders. And if you look at Revelations 4:10, this is speaking of the throne of God.


“The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,

Thou are worthy, O Lord to receive glory and honor and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.” (Rev. 4: 10-11).


And if you look over at Rev. 7:11 –


“And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God.”


“Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honor and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.” (Rev. 7:11-12).


Then we had an interesting revelation in which a spiritual elder answered and spoke to a human, John, in verse 13:

“And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? And whence came they?


“And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.” (Rev. 7:14).


Now as a boy growing up and going through seminary in the Baptist Church, we were taught that these 24 elders were 12 patriarchs and the 12 apostles which I do not believe anymore. They are saints and I believe these are spiritual beings and there’s actually 24 of them. Though when we were having that situation with this person, we ask the Lord to remove the ungodly elders, and so they got up and walked away, and then the righteous elders sat down. For a long time I pondered – there are 24 elders around the throne, are there 24 elders around us? So, it was probably two years until finally one day we were having school and Mimi Lowe was there, and at the end of the day, she said, “It’s a wheel within a wheel.” Then I realized where the other 12 elders were. So Joseph, why don’t you come here. Paul gets a chair and says, this is like from the olden days. You sit there. OK. So, you picture, Joseph, on a wheel, we call this the wheel of influence. So, the wheel is right here and there are 12 elders on the wheel. There’s one here and one elder here – Daniel – Come here, Daniel. We’d like for you to practice. Put your hand right here. Feel something there? Daniel says, “Not, yet.” Paul: When I put my hand there, I feel something right here (Paul puts points his hand to the back of his head.) Daniel, do it again. Put your hand up and come down. Do it slow. Do you feel a change in temperature? Pressure? Heat? OK, do it again. That’s an elder. There is one here and another one there. And these are good elders. OK, Dan, you can sit down. Good elders, so then I got the word. It’s a wheel within a wheel. So then, there’s another wheel here that goes this way. There are 12 elders here. Over the period of years people have seen that the wheels turn, and the unrighteous elders as the wheels turn. The two different sets of elders whisper in his ear, but if they are fallen elders, it’s not good. There are lies, deceit, bad counsel because elders do what elders do.

I grew up with deacons, but the last church had elders. These are people that handle finances. They deal wisdom. They do counsel. So there are fallen elders. The wheels are clicking (click, click, click), and they give bad advice. Righteous elders give good advice and good counsel. Of course, these are spiritual beings under the authority of God. Elders are not angels. Idlers are elders. Then we realized that this set of elders are in heaven and these on earth. So this is the agreement of heaven and earth.

Paul points to a participant. So, let’s get you on the mike. Now when Joseph was on his way here – Tell me what you were feeling? He doesn’t know what I’m going to do. I don’t know what I’m going to do.


Joseph: Several hundred yards before I turned off on the road, I felt right on this part of my head like a pin prick was going into my head and it was distinct and pronounced. So, I asked Paul what it was.


Paul: it was an elder. As I was coming here, I realized I was feeling an elder and knew that somehow this morning we were going to deal with that. Now are there any questions? Comments? Who do we have online, Brian?


Yes?, pointing to a participant. To Joseph, “You can sit down.”


Participant (older gentleman): When an elder speaks to you, sometimes, I’ll get a just like one sentence. Sometimes it will be directional, but I try to apply what the scriptures say to test the spirits to see if they are of the Lord, “do you confess Jesus Christ as your Lord?” But, I don’t get a response. Then I seem to be out of the spirit and I think it’s usually the enemy trying to get me off course from where the spirit was leading me and it seems to work. It doesn’t harm me, but it gets me off my focus of being in the spirit.


Paul: Right. That’s where there’s wisdom in any counselors. Though If I get a thought, first of all, if you ever get a thought, you always immediately apply to scripture. Does this match scripture? Does anything contradict scripture? This seems like such an easy thing to do, but it astonishes to me how many people think they are hearing from God and it’s contrary to scripture – like “I’m supposed to divorce my wife and marry someone else.” And I have dealt with this and it’s like you are talking to a wall. I remember one young lady that we had we had come. She was bout 20 or so. She was at a ministry in the Midwest. She says the Lord talks to her all the time. She tells me this that the Lord tole her to write a $10,000 check to the ministry. And her parents were there and said she didn’t have $10,000 in her account. So the check bounced. I came to find out that she was now $30,000 in the hole and that her parents are having to recover this. And as she sat in the ministry across from and argued with me that this was God’s will. And I said well, God isn’t going to do something illegal. But she totally did not get it, because she could hear from God correctly. And then I started to think, where are the pastors? Where are the counselors? Where are the people that I can also consult so we all together can judge it? A lot of us just like to work together. There’s this think about unity and all that.


Same Participant: Ian Clayton has a teaching on the book of Galatians where it ways that the sons of God have an inheritance, but they have to mature first before God will trust them. And he says that we’re given to governors and tutors until the time we are mature enough. I’ve always had this in my Pentecostal upbringing that only the Holy Spirit will lead and guide me, but he’ll lead and guide me into all truth and His Word is truth and the elders are in the Word, so if God wants to use an angel or an elder, Then the Holy Spirit can introduce me to the realm of spiritual beings.


Paul: That’s right


Same Participant: And then, as I learn wisdom on how to handle it, then I will be able to trust them.


Paul: And I generally have found that this is usually done in a context with other people, when messages come either from an elder or an angel. Where’s there’s interaction with spiritual beings, often it’s in the context of other people and so we all together can judge it. There have been some times, when others aren’t present, but it is very, very rate. Usually it’s in the context of the body, which I think is the safest thing.

One of the difficulties too of course, is if you say to someone what an angel told you and then you need to do this. If you object to what they are saying, you are arguing with God. Then you are not arguing with a person you’re back up plan is, “Well, God, led me to do this.” It’s very close to cultish type of thing, and so pay attention.


Joseph: As far as the elders go, right now, there are righteous elders around me. Can sometimes unrighteous elders come?


Paul: Anything is possible. I’ve had some occasion where an unrighteous elder got mixed up with the righteous ones. I’m only aware of just that one time.


Joseph: Sometimes I’ll hear (not in an audible voice), but something in my head telling me to do some kind of sin, and I’ll go, “Gosh, that’s demonic,” and I just think of it as a demon or Satan. But could it possibly be an unrighteous elder coming to me to tell me what to do something?


Paul: Absolutely. Now another comment – that’s always the Holy Spirit (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit)m always the Holy Spirit – one God — that are in charge. But they love to work through their creation. Those who say, “I don’t need that” –then you don’t need pastors, nor teachers, not evangelists. You don’t need anybody else. It’s just you and Go, so you have your own little world — you and God, and you just carry on. Well, that’s not realistic. He also works through His spiritual creation an we’ve found out what’s happening spiritually, then we have a clue about what’s going on. But it’s always the Holy Spirit. I have a friend who pastors also in the Midwest. He would get to a certain place on the platform and drop to the ground. He felt like it was the presence of the Lord and it was. But then he realized, there actually was an angel. It was the presence of the Lord on the angel. So when he hit that angel, boom, he was on the ground.

OK, so Helen who is in England. She feels her left thumb going off. I feel my thumb going off, too. So take you hand – the thumb is apostle, index finger is prophet, next finger, evangelist, then pastor and then, teacher. (Paul repeats naming what each finger represents.) Now, I can feel my thumb going off. In this case it’s my right thumb.


Joseph: My right thumb is warm.


Paul: that means, actually, an elder is holding on to your right thumb, which is apostolic. The aposoltic establishes new things and sent ones. They usually work in signs, wonders, and miracles. They are sent out, establish new things, and they ? (create?, correct?). So that’s part of the apostolic.


Joseph: Really, you don’t need to discern what’s around my finger since you’ve done it in the past that you just know an elder is holding on my thumb?


Paul: If you take your other hand out and bring it near your other hand, I’ll be able to tell for sure…. Yep, you have an elder holding onto your right thumb.

So whatever we do now, it has something to do with the apostolic. This is very strange, isn’t it? Very strange.


Participant in audience (same man as before): I was born and raised Roman Catholic.


Paul. OK


Participant: When I left the church…


Paul: You didn’t leave the church.


Participant: Well, when I left the religious system, but there were some charismatic priests there that really knew the word.


Paul: Let me say another thing. The Baptist is also a religious system; Pentecostal – religious system. Not just Catholics that is a religious system. We can find religious systems everywhere.


Participant: I still go on religious retreats at the Catholics because they teach you how to quiet in the presence of the Lord. So, I appreciate them. But when I was leaving, priests accused me of trying to be my own pope. So I had to discern when they dedicate a church or school to a patron saint – they give pretty much …


Paul: I don’t think we want to get off on that.


Participant: How do we distinguish between an elder and a saint?


Paul: OK. We’re probably not going to go there right now. We’ll talk later about that.

Brian, who do we have on line that I know?


Brian: I saw Tobias.


Paul: OK, Let me see Tobias.


Brian,. OK give me a second


Paul: I need a closer look to see the names, here. I see Anna. There’s Anna. Anna, Joseph is here, and his son David. (Turning to Joseph) Do you know Anna? (Joseph nods his head in affirmation) …. We’re waiting for Tobias to come up. Welcome everyone else, too. We’re not trying to exclude you. My friend, Tobias, lives in Northern Germany. We’re very grateful that he speaks English to us, not German, because we would be like tongues and we’d need an interpretation.

OK, still coming up? When we have these empty times I feel like a newscaster trying to fill up the space.

Tobias: Paul, can you hear me?

Paul: Yes. There you are, I can see you.

Tobias: I do see myself now on the screen.

Paul: Yeah. I know. Isn’t that exciting, Tobias?

  1. Yes, it’s crazy.
  2. Tobias, I feel this elder on your left hand side.
  3. What about up here? It’s really strong.
  4. Yes, that is really strong. Now, have you been connected the entire time?
  5. Yes. My chest – it’s really strong.
  6. It’s almost like you are inside the elder or something. Now when I woke up this morning, I was twitching right here on my chin. This happens to me a lot – every once in a while. I have a very strange life. Do I need to go to the doctor? Am I having a stroke, or is it spiritual?

An so, there’s a gate or something right here, Tobias. It’s a big gate.

  1. Actually while you are touching it Paul, something is happening to my ear.
  2. To your ears?
  3. Yes, could you take your hand off and then back on again?
  4. Right there.
  5. Something is happening to my chest and ear. There’s pressure when you are touching it.
  6. Well, for some reason … the gate … it’s like the edge of the gate is right here. And I fell it up here … and it’s tied to an elder. Oh. I think there is an elder message. Do you want to listen, Tobias? …. I’ll open a document.
  7. I could listen and Ken could just write it down.
  8. He’s already written something down. My friend, Ken, here writes in tongues.
  9. The pressure on my head is increasing. I think there’s and elder — after you asked me if I can receive the message. There’s an elder, who put his hand on my forehead.
  10. OK
  11. OK. I think I received something in my hands. It’s like in ancient times, in Greek times, the doctors from Greece. I think I’ve seen that before on TV. They often had their medical instruments wrapped up in animal skin. That’s how it looks like. I think it opens up and I think there are difference instruments in it.,
  12. So, you see instruments?
  13. Yeah. Medical instruments and I think it’s not just medical instruments. There’s also some strange instruments that can tune sound. They are similar to…how do you call that in English? What you use to tune an instrument?
  14. Tuning fork
  15. Tunning fork, yeah, but it’s different. It actually produces light and sound. OK. I think there’s power coming on me. Is the message downloading?
  16. Yes, it is. Again, I feel the elder here — one of the 24 elders from the throne, actually.   Hey, hey.
  17. I see a tunnel opening up in front of me. I think I am starting to move through the tunnel.
  18. Oh, you know, last night, Tobias, we were at a birthday dinner for out grandson, Christopher, and I started spinning – it was like in a whirlpool – we thought – we wondered if an angel was troubling the water, but we were spinning and really got very, very dizzy for awhile.
  19. I think it’s behind the tunnel. I’m not sure whether in or behind tunnel, there are palm trees. I can see them. I’m receiving something more in my right hand.


  1. OK. So now Joseph’s getting strange now, too. And so it’s the same thing … but the gate opens this way (for me it’s this way on the other side). To Joseph, gate opens, is actually touching you chin right here – right there. Paul goes to young male participant – right there, too.   Paul goes to a young female participant to check it out. Everybody seems to have this – for me, it’s on my left side, for you it’s on the right side.

Ken, right side also. So, let’s see Tobias if I can … it’s just below your lip on the right and side.


  1. What is it in my hands that’s really heavy and big?


  1. Is it animal skin?


  1. cause it got very heavy.
  2. the word “Shami”
  3. Is it growing?

Joseph: The word “chami” or “chamois,” which is …

  1. animal skin
  2. yeah
  3. you use it to wash a car
  4. Yeah, that word came to my mind.


  1. OK. Aaron, I heard elders bring some kind of keys. OK. Aaron, that was really strong. Anna. Ummm. Brian, can you bring that up a little bit. Thanks. There are electric tuning forks that have adjustable readings of a light and then Marilyn, “my right hand is freezing.” Well, I wonder what that is. OK. Getting any new message, yet?


  1. I’m getting distracted by all the other stuff. So, I need to focus again. After you asked that, Paul, it’s getting really warm in my stomach.


  1. Tobias is starting to get a message. Some people are listening to this with audio only. So, we’re waiting now for a message to download…. ( to someone in the group, “Something about drawing near.” Please get on the mike…. Hey, like a power surge just now… It does say in scriptures that “those who wait upon the Lord… we don’t do the waiting very well.


  1. I feel like I’m in a really quiet and restful place.
  2. I agree with that. Does anybody see what the elder is doing? It feels very still right now. OK Tobias, I have a scroll in my mouth. So here, I’ll give it to you.
  3. Ok
  4. Here it is.
  5. Yeah, I receive that.
  6. I wanted to make a comment that. It’s not that everybody is here. We are all in a spiritual place together. So these spiritual transactions can take place because we’re all in the same place.


  1. Paul?
  2. Yes
  3. Something is happening. As soon as you gave me that scroll, I felt like I had to beat with it on the ground. And scripture came to my mind. The old Testament where … was it Elisha? went to the king or the king came to him and the king asked should we go to war and the prophet gave him, told him to take an arrow and hit the ground.
  4. Yeah, that’s right. Brian, can you find that passage?
  5. I think what is in the scroll, at least a part of it are arrows. I can’t open it right now. I have to hit the ground with it.

Brian, Can you please give me the phrase again?

  1. hitting arrows on the ground … I think he only did it 3 times and he said he would have done it more … there would have been more power.


  1. I feel like I’m breaking through something the longer I do it.


Joe: Now I’m feeling something right on the top of my head.

  1. So, take your hand and go like this … that’s the cloud of witnesses … we’re with the saints, now. Brian, got it now?
  2. Chris House got it for me. It’s on the screen, 2 Kings: 13:19.
  3. OK 2 Kings 13:19.
  4. Actually, it might be the verse before: 18
  5. OK, let’s start with verse 14. Paul reads the scripture, 2 Kings 13:14-20.
  6. What’s happening now, Tobias?
  7. I think it will open up, this scroll. I can’t see clearly, but I know there are at least two or three arrows in it. And I was wondering if I’m supposed to … I had this thought that I should take them and throw them into the screen, into the camera … you want me to do that?
  8. Yes, do that.
  9. OK. Number one … number two … and number three. They all have different colors. The first one was like dark reddish… the second one was gold… third one was silver.
  10. (writing on computer) second gold and third silver. OK, now the elder is doing something … Lord, are we to do something with these arrows?
  11. and there is something that started forming in my hands … almost like water or something … like a little lake in my hands. After I told you of the arrows
  12. Do I have the three arrows in my hand? Do we each have three arrows?

I think we each (checking participants) have three arrows in our left hand, maybe (checking participants) yep, yep … Lord, are we to strike the ground? … Oh, I think we are … I just got an anointing .. like a rush of an anointing

To Joseph, put it in this hand now … OK I think .. are we speaking destruction to the enemy if we do this? What do you think Tobias?

  1. Yeah, go ahead, why don’t you do it? I wonder, Paul, if you are supposed to strike the ground, and then you have to throw it the same way that I did it into the internet, the camera
  2. Ok. I think we all have them here. Tobias, put your hands up and let me see if you still have them .. Yeah, you have them in your right hand … let’s get somebody else on the internet. Brian, just pick someone at random. We’ll see if they have the arrows also.

This is exactly what we planned this morning.

  1. It will take a moment because I have it set up … here, what I can do is give you a view from the video views.
  2. OK, Anna, hold your hands up to the camera and Helen also. Helen, I feel them in your left hand. Ruth, hold your hands up I feel them in your left hand, also. Do you agree, Ruth? Yeah, OK. Anna, do you feel them also? You can just nod your head. OK. I think wherever we are, we stand up and strike the ground … we need to strike it seven times. And what we’re declaring is victory over the enemy. Sound OK? We’re not against that.

Joseph: As long as it’s now more than three (?)

  1. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven.

Participant: Throwing them out the window?

  1. Is that what happened?

Participant (man with moustache): He was supposed to shoot the arrow toward the enemy’s camp … because the prophet said this is the victory

  1. For me, I feel like it’s this direction … anointing right here … and so, Lord, we just shoot all the arrows … which for us would be the west… Oh, I’m feeling a tremendous anointing right now … like a rush of power … Tobias, what are you seeing, feeling?
  2. Actually, I had to shoot them to the west, as well.
  3. You did?
  4. Yes, I just shot them and then I realized it is to the west, as well. Um, do we still have arrows? I have this thought that we are supposed to shoot them into the camera all over the world through the internet.
  5. OK, Lord, I send all the arrows to the camera and internet. Oh, that’s interesting, now, they’re gone. Lord, we declare destruction of the works of the enemy that are prohibiting your people from doing your work. And let your kingdom come and your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
  6. OK. Is there a shifting? Are we going somewhere else? Are we somewhere else now?
  7. Yes, we are. OK. Where are we Lord? (council, mount zion). I don’t know where we are.

Ken. War room.

  1. Ken said war room and I agree. There’s an anointing when I said that. So, now we’re in a war room. Ken, so you see it? So what do you see, Ken?

Ken: Strategies … battle plans … basically, what you would see in a war room .. how they would strategize and what not

  1. What is this elder doing now? Go ahead (points to participants)

Participant (man with moustache): on the way up here, I was given this scripture

  1. OK, let’s look at it together

Participant: It has to do with a battle plan

  1. Where is it?

Participant: It’s is 2 Samuel 17

  1. Ok. 2 Samuel 17

Participant: starting at verse 7, here

  1. Ok verse 7. Ok. We’re in 2 Sam 17:7

Participant reads the scripture verses 7-9. So, it’s sort of like a war strategy to know if you are supposed the engage the enemy or not

  1. OK. Now this elder … I feel more and more anointing on this elder, so I feel the elder here (back of head) … I feel like a tingling … Is there still a message, Tobias, from the elder? … Tobias, can you hear me? … I can’t hear you. … Ok, we’ve lost audio

Brian: hang on for just a second … If you move back to talking to the room, then I have to mute the person to knock out the background noise. So, I need for you to ask for them again, first, and then I can bring them back up.

  1. You’ve told me this before. I apologize. My son is very patient with me.

Brian: OK he’s up.

  1. Just a minute there’s something from Anna, 2 Sam17:7, is this literal? Syria is supported by Russia and Iran is being overtaken by militants sworn to wipe them out. Oh, my word … this actually …. I didn’t even get that ….Syria is a serious problem today. I don’t know, Anna, that’s very fascinating

Joseph: There’s another thing that came to my mind. It says in there, that surely he’s hidden in a pit by now and when we did find Saddam Hussein

  1. He was in a pit
  2. He was in a hole
  3. OK, Brian, now I’d like to have Tobias back.
  4. Paul? Awhile ago what you said … the elder is here (pointing to his head) He’s doing something on your ear
  5. yeah
  6. I felt him talking into your ear.
  7. (laughs) OK.
  8. I think there’s a strategy or something that he talked into you
  9. OK
  10. Now it’s getting more busy, like you have a mantle of elders around here in the back of your head … not just one
  11. OK I feel that
  12. And up above here, as well
  13. I feel that
  14. There’s something happening … it’s as if they are taking you to a higher ground or a higher reality, something like that
  15. Well, last night we were with a friend and we were at the Victorian showing her around and she turned to me and said, there’s something bad in front of you and so I put my hands up and I felt an ungodly gate and I asked the Lord to remove it and then it was after that I went into this other place and I went into this new place and I felt a stirring. But I wonder if that’s what happened last night and I got really, really dizzy … almost like disoriented as if you went to a place you’ve never been before and you had to get your bearings. It was like that. I almost felt like I could pass out.
  16. Paul?
  17. Yes, sir.
  18. I think what they want to do is take you by the head and pull you to this other place.
  19. laughter
  20. Which is kind of funny.
  21. Thanks, Tobias.
  22. You are still stuck in this old place. If you would stand up and … I think it’s somewhere from your heart downwards. You are stuck in something.
  23. There’s something here
  24. I think the further you go down, the harder the stuff gets stuck in
  25. OK. So, what am I to do? So Lord, pull me into this new place and unstick me from the old place.

Ken (?). It looks like it’s quick sand, Paul.

  1. Actually, I feel like a deliverance coming on. I feel deliverance coming on. Do you see the deliverance, Tobias? I feel a deliverance.
  2. Yeah, something is going on, but I think it’s only on this level where the deliverance is going on, not deeper
  3. Yeah, I feel this here (about waist high)
  4. I think it’s layers, different layers. There might be more work that is needed.
  5. OK, I still feel it coming off. Let’s turn to Zechariah 10:4-7. Let the Lord multitask. Zech 10:4-7, Marilyn got this.

Ken: like quick sand

  1. Like quick sand? Well, I feel like I’m coming out of whatever this is, Tobias. So, Lord, what am I being taken out of?
  2. I felt like that at your feet there’s concrete.
  3. OK. So, I break out the concrete at my feet that would keep me from going higher.
  4. Is it possibly, old mindset?
  5. There’s always old mindsets. Lord, please break off the old mindsets off of all of us. Right?
  6. Yes, and we repent of it.
  7. Yes we do, Lord. Zech 10:4-7. That was a great passage. Then reads Zech 9:12-14. Still feel the deliverance coming off.

Joseph: Wonder if the whirlwinds were what you were feeling last night.

  1. Oh, cause it was like that. It was like that it was spinning. I still feel the deliverance coming on. Now it’s interesting that an elder seems to be involved in the deliverance, Tobias. Is he holding like a rod? And the deliverance is going through his rod? I feel it coming off this way … through the spiritual elder. Maybe he’s doing something. It seems like it’s generational … Tobias wrote: I saw that the Lord wants to pull us through a gate that looks ornamental … Tobias, is this the gate, here? Is that the golden gate?
  2. Yes, yes. That’s what I’m feeling coming off all of us
  3. It isn’t ornamental; it’s oriental.
  4. Thank you, son. Yeah, oriental.
  5. Actually, it looked like … from former times like the Turks had or the middle east Yeah, I was thinking … someone said something about Iran and Syria today. Maybe it’s connected with that.
  6. When you said Syria, there’s actually an anointing with that.
  7. Is that freedom for Syria today?
  8. Well, I’m wondering. Chris, I have the sense of discerning Jezebel for the last half hour. Not sure if it’s relevant to this session. OK. Could be Chris, but I don’t get it yet.
  9. Something shifted when you said that, Paul. On my forefront, here. Something started to happen to get pressure … a lot of pressure here … something
  10. Yeah, I’m feeling it right here
  11. I think it’s like a line or something. It’s going on out from here.
  12. Yeah. I feel that right here… like a cylinder.
  13. Are we connected to Syria?
  14. Are we connected to Syria? I can’t confirm that.

Participant: Isn’t Jezebel from that area?

  1. Jezebel was from … does anybody remember where Jezebel is from? I think she may be. This is a good place to take a break. We’re going to take a short five minute break here.


  1. OK, welcome back. Part II of Discernment Coaching and Exploration. We used to call this coaching, but it seems to be all exploration, now. We tried to bring everybody up to speed. I want to … while we have everybody back together … turn to James, chapter 5. I was with a man who has a strong gift of healing, Randy Clark, at the Toronto Airport Church many years ago and I was doing a conference with him and I was sitting next to him in front, and he had an intern who was picking up words of knowledge for healing and Randy said “OHHH” and I asked what just happened. He said I have a word of knowledge in my ankle. I said that sounds more like discernment to me. And so he said, what happens is the Lord tells him something about healing. And so, I put my hand down to the ankle and I realized that there was an elder touching his ankle. And, I thought of this verse in James chapter 5 verse 14 (reads the scripture) and I realized that every time that Randy would give what he called a word of knowledge that the elders where actually touching that part of the body. I have a friend, Rob Gross, who does this regularly. As he passes a church, we’re at the end of the service, he calls out a word of knowledge for healing and how he knows is that he feels there’s an elder touching different parts of his body. So if an elder touches his heart, he says, is there anyone with a heart condition. I believe the Lord wants to heal hearts … and they’ve seen many, many healings doing that. So it maybe that this is not one of the physical elders of the church, but the spiritual elders.


Participant (man with moustache): The earthly elders and the spiritual elders work like the wheel within the wheel. They co-ordinate together with the elders do in the spirit, the person in the natural will respond. It’s like a team effort coming from heaven and from earth.

  1. I think that makes sense. Yes. I absolutely agree. So now, Lord, where are we now? I still feel this elder. Now Tobias, this is interesting … I think we went through the gate, because I do not feel the gate. Have we gone into a new place? Tobias, am I out of the cement, muck, and quick sand? Ken has something on his hand.


Brian: would you like Tobias up?

  1. Please. (to Ken) You have a rod here, like an elder’s rod. You know what Ken, I feel healing on it. There’s actually…
  2. I have that, too, I believe. When you touched it, I felt it here.
  3. Let me check. Leave your hands still there … Yeah, you do, right here. It’s healing.

Someone (could be Tobias): I wonder if we all have it.

  1. Mine is on the right hand side. (to participant, man with moustache). Yeah, right here. There’s healing … Daniel, put your hand … Yeah, you have healing. To girl in 2nd row …Yeah. There’s actually, I wonder if we have moved into a new place of healing, Tobias.
  2. Paul, when you said that I had the feeling that the Lord wanted to release a wafe of healing.
  3. a wave of healing. OK, Tobias, turn that into a prayer.
  4. Father, we repent for everything where we did not understand your healing and where we rejected as the body of Christ your healing power and we accepted sickness. and we ask you to release amongst your body worldwide the power, the gift, and a wave of healing.
  5. We agree, Lord.
  6. Father and what you need to connect our rods of healing, and different saints and the gifts to release that, we ask you to do so.
  7. Now, remember you said that you saw palm trees?
  8. Yes, oh yeah, that makes sense.
  9. and actually, palms do have fruit. They have coconut.
  10. Yeah, it could be oriental, as well, Paul.
  11. That’s right. And dates
  12. Date trees have palms, too.
  13. Why didn’t I think of that? Yes?

Participant (man): dates for my snack driving up here, I thought of dates.

  1. that was prophetic, perhaps. OK. I still feel this elder. I still have a sense that this elder has a message.
  2. Paul, when you said that something got really hot on my righthand side. When you said the elder had a message, it got really hot. All over my right, it is really hot.
  3. Brian, would you put up the word that Ken scribbled?
  4. That’s not scribbling. That’s peculiar writing.
  5. Anna says, palm trees signify His rest. They grow in the oasis which is rest. Anna it’s very interesting that we have the first of every month what Brian calls the healing oasis where the youth pray for healing for people. And isn’t that interesting, Brian, that the oasis where you would have palm trees with dates and dates. I wonder if dates have healing qualities in them. Does anybody know? …. OK, here we have a tongue that Ken has written up. Ken, that’s a little different than you’ve done before. How in the world does he do that? Look at that. How do you do that? You see that Tobias? Hey, Tobias. I think it would be fun for you to try and translate this.
  6. It’s not German.
  7. No, it’s not. You’re really quick.
  8. It is still very hot on my right hand side. And I am wondering if the gate is still there and the metal of the gate. It looks like a golden gate and the metal of the gate might be heating up. I wonder about that.
  9. I don’t understand this, but before I didn’t feel that gate, but now I feel it again. I feel the gate. Why is it attached here to the chin. Is there anything in the Bible about a chin? Does anybody know anything in the Bible about a chin? Any word about a chin? Does anybody on the internet have a translation of this tongue? Let me see if I can feel what this is. Angels. Is this a tongue of angels? Look at that how intricate that is. That’s quite amazing. How do you do that? Jaw (?) that’s what it is, it’s Jaw. We have the jaw which is Samson and he destroyed the gate. It’s on my chin. It’s actually, right here. Do did anybody find out anything about a jaw. I think Samson
  10. Jaw of a donkey
  11. that’s what I thought, but I wasn’t sure. Ok there’s a scripture about the jaw breaking the jaw of the enemy. Maybe Brian or somebody can look up jaw. We’ll multi-task here right now. Ok. So, Joseph has something right here. Again this is the saints. So, this is the cloud of witnesses. I feel the elder right up there. (J. sits down) OK. J. feels like we are moving. I feel like we’re almost like on a people mover like thing. We’re not in the war room. Lord, where are we now? … Does anybody have a translation? OK. Ken has something. What do you have, Ken?


  1. Ezekiel 29:4. Ok. We’ll start on verse one. Reads V. 1-4. There’s definitely a sense of war. Job 29:16. Let’s look at Job 29:16-17. Reads … teeth. I wonder if that word is jaw in another translation. And Job 41:2 … hook, talking about Leviathan … Isaiah 30:28 reads. That certainly is judgment, isn’t it? It’s not too good to have a hook in your jaw. That would be most unpleasant. … OK. So I still feel this elder.
  2. mumbling
  3. What is it? Psalm 30:7, oh, Psalm 3:7 Reads. I feel something all the way down my cheek/face. It runs from the jaw up … yeah, that’s good (to participant). Cheekbone. Ok, so, that’s Psalm 3:7. I’m going to read Psalm 3:1-8. I usually share something personal. Yesterday, after I had deliverances all day, I was feeling really, really down and we had gone to the Victorian where Aslan’s Place started. I went in there and there was all sorts of warfare in there and I was feeling just like this (pointing to Psalm 3). I was feeling like, Lord, when is this ever done? When is this ever over? It seems like it’s just hopeless and I actually did that … I lay down and slept. And I awoke for the LORD sustained me. This is totally it. So, through discernment, I have experienced this chapter. So, Lord, I declare that you will strike the enemy in the cheekbone and you will break the teeth of the ungodly. Wow, there’s something about that. So, Lord, we declare that you will break the teeth of the ungodly … they will have no more bite. Are you all tired of what the enemy is doing? I am and I know Ken is. OK Brian.

Brian: I want the thank everyone. We’re getting lots of good comments, excellent Bible references. I need to remind everyone. I need just the Bible reference, not the actual text. Because when it’s the entire text, it’s too much to bring over… just the Bible reference and then perhaps a quick note on what it’s regarding, not the entire thing. Thank you very much.

  1. It’s good. This is amazing so I wake up with this on my jaw (points to participant) you get the cheekbone? And this all pertains … it’s about war … about your enemies … war room. This all fits together. Go ahead.

Participant: It’s also about stopping the enemy from the bad counsel they’re giving cause when their jaw is broken they can’t speak

  1. That’s great.

Participant: and I keep seeing the philistine giant with his threats and he keeps spewing it out of his mouth, so we’re going to silence that bad counsel coming out of his mouth.

  1. I like that. Joseph.
  2. I just see … I see the vineyard and then a giant set of evil teeth above it … maybe a hundred feet across or something and I just feel like we need to pray against those teeth that are over the vineyard.
  3. OK. Why don’t you pray that.
  4. Lord Jesus, I ask you to strike the enemy on the cheekbone and break the teeth of the enemy that’s over the vineyard in Sonoma in the mighty name of Jesus
  5. and many people point out Isaiah 50:6.

Participant; This is really interesting. I was just going to tell you that I’m starting to feel the wounds of Christ and the Lord was dealing with me to apply the wounds of Christ over the wounds of the enemy. I didn’t understand that but I was feeling my hands being pierced and I was feeling heat around my head and I didn’t know if that was Christ’s crown of thorns or not, but I kept getting the wounds of Christ somehow to apply that to this warefare.

  1. OK. Let’s start with verse 4. Reads …. To him who is weary.” This is interesting in that you have what an elder would do. I was so exhausted yesterday afternoon. (continues reading v. 4) … “He awakens My ear.” Remember Tobias, you were talking about your ear… shame and spitting (v. 6). This verse is about Jesus, isn’t it? (continues reading v.7-8) …. “who justifies me.” I received a word about a flint … Let me see if I can find it real fast
  2. You know that about the flint … we use flint in welding to strike the flame
  3. Oh that’s right you strike the flint … (Paul reads from the computer) Ok, I received this word and she called it the flint and she says on flinty rock … I am the rock and razor perfect … I have propelled you upward to ever increasing height …. Which is what I think the Lord is doing today … because you have sought my wisdom more than man searches for gold or fame … therefore, I’ve decreed to you I release oil and honey mix and then you shall continue to search forth and from out of my summits where you are found upon my flinty rock. It is a firm foundation inpenetrable, unmovable … I think this is talking about all of us …others have come to the mountain, but not sought my wisdom However, you’ve not been after experience, but after me and sought wisdom, not to pump yourself up with knowledge… flinty rock height… Isn’t that interesting? OK, so she looked at the word, flint, A flint is made of millions of microscopic bits of quartz and chalcedony. It’s part of the quartz family you wouldn’t think that a flinty rock very hard dark black it looks like of sodium at first glance when you look at a microscope for close to a real close the real treasures show up quartz … how do you spell that?   .. thaltedony .. how to do say it Brian.

Joseph: Quartz is one of the hardest rocks. Yeah, you know really hard to drill into

  1. Don’t they use quartz to drill?
  2. I don’t know
  3. hard as diamonds
  4. not as hard as diamonds … but it’s cheaper than diamonds .. they also use quartz in new age healing
  5. OK good. Chris, Deuteronomy 32:13 … this is the song of Moses … reads v. 13 OK let’s go before … reads v. 13 … “an oil from the flinty rock” That was in the word that she gave me … talking about honey and oil from the flinty rock ….Look at it. It’s all there – honey, oil from the flinty rock, and heights. That’s a great verse, Chris. Chris, where are you located? Maryland … Isaiah 51, we already read that one … is it also associated with diamonds and the prophetic strong heart and Immovable set for the course …. This is all tied together with the battle, with perseverance, with the Lord coming to our rescue, … I get the word that the battle is the Lords … and not ours … Tobias, are you still on? Can I have you come back? … Sandy, and they use flint to make arrow head … that’s right ….there you have the arrows that we dealt with earlier … many of you have the gift of obvious that I don’t want to think of , so I appreciate that … Tobias, I still feel this elder with a message …
  6. OK. I feel something really strong here in the back of my head
  7. That feels like the elder
  8. Ok. He started pressuring like a few seconds ago really strong … and I think there is something flowing out of his hands.
  9. Whose hands?
  10. the elder’s hands. I think it’s whether oil of milk and honey, something like that
  11. OK when you said honey it was a strong hit
  12. and honey would be revelation and the refreshing … something has come of it
  13. And I also got wisdom …. Increasing …. Hey, hey, hey … we’re waiting to see if Tobias gets something.
  14. I got something when they anointing was going on, but I don’t know if it was a message…. Look to the east, not to the west … revelation is coming from the east… something about new hope and new boundaries … I see a ship coming from the east …
  15. Now this elder feels really, really strong
  16. Yes, it is like he is putting his hand around my neck … I’m getting this word … doctor’s appointment … a new strength arising in the bones … and I saw bones getting together and getting up … and the meat, the flesh coming on to them, like Ezekiel, that scripture … and I hear that the strength is coming from the west, but the revelation is coming from the east and I feel like they have to meet
  17. there’s still more … Chari writes that Tobias word seems to be tied with the tongue writing …P. I wonder if that’s the interpretation of the tongue … OK. Ken confirms that …Thank you Ken
  18. Actually I think I saw what I just said in Revelation from east and power from the west and they started circling around each other and they started to be interwoven like that … it’s really strong on my head, the elder … I think I have a knife in my hand … a longer knife … I hear, “Cut the cords that entangle you”
  19. Lord, we ask you to cut the cords that entangle us and Lord we ask for a release of strength and wisdom on us … you all like that? … Lord we ask for a release of strength and wisdom on us …
  20. and I saw myself using this knife stabbing something dark that looked like a person into the heart
  21. (background talk not on mic). OK, go ahead and do that

Participant (man with moustache). Speaking/Singing in tongues

  1. Tobias, could you put your mike back on? OK. We have a tongue, so we need an interpretation
  2. So, are you asking me for the interpretation?
  3. Well, if you have it, please, or if anybody else has it … if someone else has it, let us know … you have it? OK. He has the interpretation … incidentally, the first time we experienced tongues in church, the person interpreting the tongues and I went to scripture and it doesn’t say who should interpret. You can interpret the tongue. It just says that there needs to be an interpretation. So say it slowly so I can get it typed out.

Participant: Gird up the loins … prepare for battle … Set your face as a flint … to go into Jerusalem … now is not the day to grow weary … now is not the day to be at calm and at rest, in a worldly rest … there is a higher realm where you will find the rest that you need … where I am, you shall be also … from that realm, you shall destroy your enemy. Set your face as a flint. Be determined to be in the rescue mode attach yourself to me and my armor … conventions of the past will not work. You cannot rest on past laurels and victories. Be determined to come into the place where you look down onto your enemies. From that perch, you will find both rest and victory … for I am the God of the overcomers

  1. What is very fascinating to me is as weary as I was yesterday … it’s hard to explain where you get to the point that I can keep on doing this. I was that exhausted last night and how all this ties in with keep on going don’t stop. I imagine like many of us are weary of about … and does this ever stop .. and trying to overcome .. Tobias understands that … he has been battling for years and years and years … I could go into details but he is an example to me of someone who does not give up or who is overcoming against odds that not many understand … and I don’t know if he understands it. So I’m very proud of you, Tobias for that … for your perseverance . I know that you have to be very battle weary. Chrystal wrote a very interesting that she felt that Ken’s writing reminded her of someone dancing … so that’s very interesting … Brian, can I see Anna? … Anna, I feel like you have something

Anna: I can’t hear you

  1. I feel like you have something. Do you have anything?
  2. Did you get those scriptures that I just sent?
  3. Brian … got Isaiah 50 … yeah we read that one … Steve is writing and asking us to pray for his right foot … it’s been swollen for two months. We’ll do that next, Brian. Get Steve … Ok Anna, do you have anything else?

Anna: Well, in verse 6 it says, “I gave My back to the smitters and my cheeks to those who plucked out the hair …I hid not My face from shame and spitting.” This is, of course, Jesus, the prophecy, but it was curious to me in my cheeks then plucked off the hair. The word “jaw” doesn’t mean “chin.” The jaw actually translated in the Hebrew means “cheeks.”

  1. Oh, it does? … I didn’t know that.

Anna: No, I didn’t either, Paul.

  1. Well, Jana, I thought you were supposed to be here … I know why. Brian, if I could see Steve … Jana just came in. I had thought about Jana earlier … I thought Jana needs to be here and Jana just walked in, so good timing Jana. If I can see Steve, we’ll check out your foot, Steve.

Brian: Yes, I’ve asked Steve to turn his camera on

  1. OK.. Oh, Steve, welcome. I just asked Brian about you yesterday or last week, I guess cause I’ve not seen you for awhile. So somehow, I need to discern your right foot. Let me see your foot … don’t’ fall off your chair.

Steve: it’s not discernment, it’s throbbing pain … do you want me to put it up there?

  1. Put your hand on the foot … Say, Lord, please disconnect me from any fallen son of God and any nephilim and rephaim… and bring all parts of me out of the ungodly depths and disconnect any parts of me that might be attached to anybody else. And Lord, please release healing on my foot … OK, that feels better now. Good to see you, Steve.

Steve. Good to see you.

  1. and your wife, too. OK. Jana, we’re almost at two hours … we’ve had an elder here with a message and the message has not come, so would you come up? We need to get you a mike. Dan would you hold the mike? She waves her arms sometimes. Oh, yes, we’re going to use this mike cause it picks up better. You do better over here, cause her arms will start flapping…. Oh, dancing around the enemy’s camp. Now Jana doesn’t know anything that has happened to far, so this is going to be fun.


Jana: begins prophecy by praying in tongues. Sings a song “Hey, ya ho. Why hey hey hey …. It’s a time of awakening … the baptism of the heart … put on Zion … be clothed in strength … arise, shine and be clothed in the imperishable … but what was inside has now come out … the kingdom of heaven is without lack. It’s without doubt … I just have to tell you I’m feeling this fire come out … The safest place is in the center of the flame positioned by the arm of the Lord … that’s your claim to fame … the imperishable burns within and must be moved without as the Kingdom of Heaven is within … Kingdom of God is within … and the Kingdom of Heaven is without … you create the realm and release it in earth as it is in heaven … as it is in earth … you believe in me … believe in the works I do for the same spirit that raised Him from the dead lives in you … don’t you know you carry the imminence of heaven … it changes creation, itself and it’s without leaven … It moves from within, not just a power or a source. It’s living and active distributing abroad like the sound of many waters. In one voice you are strong … now, there’s something in my hand, Paul

  1. OK. Anybody see what it is? … Joe says it’s a vase … God only does things well, so it’s a vase (pronounced with a short vowel)… is it oil?

Jana: anyone know? It seems to be vibrating as it is

  1. There’s healing in it

Jana: So, what do I do?

  1. That’s what I was getting. There’s miraculous power there. I’m feeling tremendous power on the back of my head, now.

Jana: and that’s where I’ve been feeling this, right here (back of head)

  1. I got that it is for the youth … so I think it’s for Daniel

Jana: So, should I just pour this over Daniel? I mean, that’s my thought, just to pour it over Daniel.

  1. I think so.

Jana: Daniel is an amazing name. It’s about a nice Jewish boy in a bad neighborhood.

  1. Ha, ha, ha. That’s good

Jana: But I do think that we have this treasure in earthen vessels. And I believe that the Lord wants to pour this out among you and that you touch many, as well. So, Lord, we just thank you (she pours it over his head)

  1. Oh, I feel that

Jana: oh, wow. Doesn’t it feel like it’s pouring all over you, too?

  1. Ya know, Daniel, there’s only one person outside of Jesus where there’s nothing bad said about him …. That was Daniel. I’m trying to think of anybody else, but Daniel, there’s never anything written bad about him. That’s something to live up to….. no pressure.

Ken: that’s some big shoes

  1. yes, that’s some big shoes

Jana: I believe that’s true for you, too, I believe that you will walk in places that … where the religious dare not tread … and the Lord is going to open places and spaces and the enemy will dread

  1. walks over. There’s a mantle … like a prayer cloth, but it’s not totally over the head … it’s like a cloak, right here

Jana: garment

  1. So what do you see? It’s almost like woolly.

Jana: it’s thick

  1. yes, it’s very thick. Oh, are you a prophet? Oh, he’s a prophet. Is that true?.. Do you have a strong sense of right and wrong?

Dan: I don’t know.

Jana: He said, “I don’t know.”

  1. Yes, there’s a prophetic anointing on you. It’s really strong.

Jana: Oh, yeah. It’s increasing.

Participant: right before you started prophesying, the Lord clothed her with a purple cloak and whatever was on her was coming into him

  1. Ahhh. Well, Jana is definitely prophetic.

Participant (to Daniel) So, there’s a transference starting in your life … there to pick things up prophetically more and more now.

  1. I feel like that’s true. Very true. … Any final comments before we conclude? .. Well, Jana, this is interesting, we had just talked about the heart … we used the phrase “the kingdom of God on earth as it is in heaven. We’ve been talking about strength and let’s see what else did she get …

Joseph: There was one part, let me see that I had a question on with something you will do

  1. Don’t you know you will carry the imminence of heaven …. Well, Lord, we thank you for what you’ve done today …. Marilyn writes Psalm 133 oil running down the beard is unity of generations … we absolutely believe that … very interesting, Brian started a youth group some years ago and now we have the youth parents and grand parents coming. It’s all about the youth. He’s very precise that this is all about the youth. We are always teaching the youth while parents and grandparents are sitting in the back. And we feel like this is a model of inner generational that God wants to have. It’s unfortunate that a lot of churches refuse to even have the children in the church service. I’ve always felt that was very sad because the children learn by observing. They say, well what is this? They see community, well what does that mean? And these are object lessons that children pick up and they want to know about. They ask questions. As soon as you ask a question you are interested. So rather than being told, you watch it and so we have this going on with the children and the adults are really more excited than the kids are. The parents and grandparents are like rabid for this and kids are saying what’s the big deal. But I think it’s a modeling that takes place. So, that’s great, Marilyn…. Well, Father, we thank you so much for what you’ve done today and Lord for the encouragement to me after being so exhausted yesterday and weary of the battle and Lord I know many of us have been extremely weary of the battle, that the battle has been very, very hard and seems to be long lasting and then you wonder if you’re making any progress and so we thank you for your encouragement. And Lord, we do desire to be persevering and to keep on keeping on. We speak blessings to everyone listening and for those who are here. Amen.


Bible Verses referenced during this session:

Revelation 4:10, 7:11 – Regarding Elders
2 Kings 13:14
2 Samuel 17:7
Zechariah 10:4-7, 9:12-14
James 5:14
Ezekiel 29:4, Job 29:16-17, Job 41:2, Isaiah 30:28, Psalm 3:7, Isaiah 50:6 – all referring to the jaw
Deuteronomy 32:13

Ken’s writing from 4-6-13


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